Yeah, this whole pick-up-artist/seduction thing really just has to disappear fast

1. So all of you are now aware that a redditor who asked for 2 grand to publish a book on dating and relationships got $16,000 on Kickstarter (h/t Ricky McAlister). What is this book like? What kind of advice is he giving? Oh, you know, the sort of thing that can’t be called dog shit because it would do a disservice to whatever utility dog shit might have. The quote below is from advice he’s been giving on Reddit; one would hope this does not find its way into a book of any sort:

Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.

This awful quote is a bit out of context, but not really. It is true that Mr. Hoinsky defends himself by arguing that he has established this advice concerns two people who know each other and desire each other. (I’m not at all clear why having sex should be a problem requiring the action described above if this is the case, but there is much I do not understand). It is also true he talks about staying positive and giving to others without expecting anything in return. That discussion is terribly convoluted and worth a closer look. He says one shouldn’t expect anything in return but just keep giving, as the world will reward one for that behavior:

When you’re talking to anyone, really think about whether or not you are giving a net positive or net negative contribution to their life. Don’t worry about what you stand to get in return. If you go through life contributing more value than you take, the world will start to reward you for it. People are drawn to value givers and their attitudes are contagious.

The fundamental problem of just and virtuous behavior is that there is no clear reward. Many become tyrants or criminals because they feel the need to get what is good for them immediately instead of suffering for nothing. One has to wonder what could possess someone to make them think a few nice words about giving back and eventually getting something for it would be persuasive. It’s that utter stupidity which makes the “seduction community” dangerous. They’re ignorantly and crudely creating a rape culture, and it looks like they’re doing it by trying to make social interaction far too practical.

2. At least, that’s my theory. I can’t really fathom what would get someone to think behavior like the “Physical Push/Pull” is acceptable (h/t Paul Shillinger). It is described as “where you substitute actual physical pushes and pulls for emotional push/pulls, OR combine them with emotional push/pulls for maximum effect.” It results in garbage like this:

I re-open a girl by walking up, grabbing her, caveman-ing her against the wall & kissing her. Then I cast her aside and get a drink at the bar. The entire time she is staring like “OMG who is this guy?” (in a good way).

I come back to her with my drink. “Come on, let’s go.”

Apparently, this occurred in a club where more physical things do happen, and the poster claims the result of all this was positive for him. I just can’t get over how brainless, crude and disrespectful it is. How do you explain to the “caveman” (I think that term works in the absence of formal charges) that it really doesn’t matter if the girl is staring at him in a good way? That this is just wrong, that there are limits to how people treat each other in even the most intense environments?

3. Yeah, I said limits. You don’t see any sense of limit from a post like this, which talks about how to make some physical contact during beer pong while describing the drama of trying to “get” three different women. One can argue that all of this junk is happening because we’re a society that thinks way too much about sex. I’ll grant that, to a degree. What’s really scary about all the pick-up artist talk are the overtones of power and control. These guys are creeps and (perhaps) half the time don’t even realize it because the focus is feeling better about their lives. Selfish/selfless doesn’t begin to describe what a mess their moral compass is. The pick-up artist mentality has nothing to do with actually getting someone worthwhile. It has everything to do with feeling like you can get anyone; getting someone is just one possible end. There’s a huge difference between the former and the latter, obviously. Building confidence on the ability to get anyone is ridiculous and involves manipulation, if not cruelty. It does seem like looking to get anyone might make one more open to genuinely beautiful, moral people, but hahahaha we’re talking about wannabe pick-up artists here. They use the term “hot babe” with regularity. Getting someone worthwhile involves far more than attraction and not being a creep. It means building trust, and that’s a word I hesitate to use in this discussion since the topic of this post is so, so low. I will not disgrace the word “trust” by speaking further of it at the moment.

This is ultimately a post about what not to do. What not to do: promote a culture where “no” is blurring with “yes” in the minds of some idiots. The consistent emphasis on making physical contact seems to lead to that point. Not to get into the business of giving relationship advice, but I suspect this is a pretty useful corrective: not everyone can get the person they think they want. If that’s taken to heart, then there’s probably a lot less that needs to be said about approaching women and lot more to be said about everything else in life.

1 Comment

  1. Dear Ashok,

    Thank you for this post. Much like you, I cannot fathom a situation in which any of the appalling maneuvers described would be acceptable, let alone effective. The militaristic jargon employed by the wanna-be seducers is very teling-they view women as the enemies, the haves who are denying poor menz something they desire (namely, sex with beautiful women). And here is a very important point: this entire shitty community is about average-looking men obtaining “hot babes” who would normally be out of their reach.

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